Tag: contract fraud

Property victim to stage UK protest

BRITISH home buyer Conor O’Dwyer will begin a three-day protest outside one Britain’s biggest property fairs in a move that could seriously damage the lucrative industry in Cyprus.

O’Dwyer, 38, told the Cyprus Mail yesterday that he and his wife would protest outside The Homebuyer & Property Investor Show at ExCeL London, which begins today and runs until Sunday. They will distribute leaflets warning people of the pitfalls of buying a home in Cyprus, he said.

The fair usually attracts around 15,000 prospective home buyers and numerous Cypriot developers will be represented among the 250 stands.

“I said if my recent trip to Cyprus didn’t bear any fruit that I planned to stage a protest,” O’Dwyer said. “There will be many estate agents there and all of the property magazines”.

protest leaflet
protest leaflet

In his leaflet O’Dwyer says Cyprus is a beautiful country with lovely people but is being spoilt by greedy developers and unscrupulous lawyers. He outlines the basics of the ongoing case he has with a Cypriot development company, which are detailed in full on his website lyingbuilder.com and on YouTube.

The British ex-soldier spent a week in Larnaca hospital in January after he was beaten up in Frenaros when he went to take pictures of the house he had bought and over which later came into dispute with the developers.

He says they unilaterally cancelled his contract and kept his money, some £75,000 sterling because he had pulled them up over what he saw as a violation of the terms of the contract. The case is pending at court. The developers have accused O’Dwyer of allegedly masterminding a plan to extort a newer, more expensive property, and exorbitant damages from the company.

They have, however, been charged by police in connection with the attack on O’Dwyer in Frenaros, but the case has yet to reach the courts. “My case has been treated disgustingly by the CID in Paralimni,” O’Dwyer said yesterday. “They charged them with the lesser crime of actual bodily harm when it was clearly grievous bodily harm because I spent six days in hospital.”

O’Dwyer said he has been left with little choice now other than protesting in the UK as he has managed to get nowhere towards solving his case in Cyprus over the past three years.

He and dozens of other buyers, stung by developers in Cyprus, are also planning a later demonstration outside the Cypriot High Commission in London, possibly during a visit there by new President Demetris Christofias who has been invited to London by Downing Street.

In a written statement issued later yesterday, O’Dwyer said he had been “saddened by the outrageous lack of action taken by the Cypriot authorities” in both the assault case and the property dispute.

“Throughout the case, the authorities have reacted indifferently and unsympathetically,” he said.

“This protest outside The Homebuyer & Property Investor Show in London will be the first of many.”

By Jean Christou
Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2008

Γιώργο Φ. Πιττάτζιη γράμμα: 21-03-2007

21.3.2007

Κύριο
Γιώργο Φ. Πιττάτζιη
Δικηγόρο
Τ.Θ. 33066
5310 ΠΑΡΑΛΙΜΝΙ

Αγ. Συνάδελφε,

Θέμα: Αγωγή αρ. 365/06 Ε. Δ. Αμμοχώστου
υπό Christoforos Karayiannas & Son Ltd

Οι πελάτες μας κ.κ. Conor O’ Dwyer και Michaella O’ Dwyer, από την Αγγλία, έχουν πρόσφατα πληροφορηθεί ότι πέραν του ότι η επίδικη κατοικία τους κατέχεται παράνομα από τρίτο πρόσωπο, οι πελάτες σας έχουν παράνομα υπογράψει συμφωνία με αυτό το πρόσωπο για την πώληση της επίδικης κατοικία τους.

Ως εκ τούτου κατ’ εντολή των πελατών μας σας πληροφορούμε ότι μας έχουν δοθεί οδηγίες για διερεύνηση του θέματος και στα πλαίσια εξακρίβωσης των πληροφοριών που έχουν λάβει οι πελάτες μας, είμαστε υποχρεωμένοι να ενημερώσουμε άμεσα την κάτοχο της κατοικίας για την εκκρεμούσα δικαστική διαδικασία και να προβούμε σε όλες τις αναγκαίες ενέργειες.

Διατελούμε κατ’εντολή,

Ελενα Ανδρέου
Αντώνης Ανδρέου & Σία
Δικηγόροι.

Karayiannas Developers office: Morning 07-03-2006

On Tuesday I was fifteen minutes early for my meeting in Paralimni and you will hear Michelle Anglou say Marios Karayiannas is in Larnaka and she has no idea when we will be back. I already know from meeting an expat on site that Marios will be in Frenaros at 11am. I shame Michelle about her lies but let her know that we’ll live there and we will be happy. I told Michelle that I had business to do in Nicosia on Wednesday so I must see Marios today. I recorded this meeting via the microphone attached to the ipod.

Download mp3

Morning Michelle.
Morning.
Hello there, (I said to another customer as he was leaving)
Is Marios around?
He’s not I’m afraid, He’s gone out early this morning with his father, I think they have gone to Larnaca.
Larnaca, do you know what time he’ll be back?
I can’t say Conor because yesterday was a bank holiday, so it’s like a Monday for them today so it’s like days when they have. They are going to Larnaca this morning and he’s got other appointments when he comes back.
Do you know what time his next appointment is around this area?
I can’t say I don’t know.
Well if you can’t say then you playing avoidance, you’re avoiding. I’m here to do business with Marios

Listen he’s spoken with his solicitor about the situation when the emails, the emails you sent with what you had to offer he didn’t agree with. He’s spoke to his solicitor. To say look he’s obviously not happy with what’s going on he doesn’t under stand the situation, I don’t know what to do. he sent you his solicitor been in contact with you, now if he’s to go over exactly the same thing as what he’s already gone over with you, then for him..
I’m boring him.
No it’s not that you’re boring him it’s just he doesn’t feel you understand he cant..
So I.. Alright. He understands the situation is that you said? When you said understands earlier. He understands?
At the end of the day you either have to speak with him or speak with his solicitor
And he said that’s its better that you either speak with your solicitor or speak with his.
Because you obviously you can’t understand each other. It’s not for me to sit now and start discussing it with you because it’s gone to a higher level rather then…

The thing is Michelle as you know. Preparations to move are so far advance we haven’t got time to go down the solicitor’s line. His solicitor took 2 and half weeks to write five lines. I haven’t got that luxury, neither have we the money to pay for solicitors to talk on our behalf. OK. So as it stands Michelle we have to buy that plot as it is there Marios has got us he’s won. OK. So what happens is, I’ve had my money sitting with Marion for a month now to pay you guys, I want to speak to Marios, just want clear up some final points and give him you the OK to release the money and we go on.
But I’m not going to hand over another 30,000 on top of the 100,000 we’ve already paid whatever we’ve already paid, to someone who is not going to speak to me. So it’s very important that he speaks to me. I asked him last time I was here that’s its up to him to rebuild the trust that has been broke between us.

Phone rings..
Another customer walks in.
We continue in 1 minute.

Ok then so when he gets back in hopefully I think it will be after lunchtime if he gets back in he can see you this afternoon then he will, If not it might be tomorrow OK. Because as I said..
Yea, yea it’s not good enough. I said I would be here.
OK I’ll speak to him Conor and I’ll see what I can do.
I’ll wait here, I’ll let you deal with this other chap and I’ll speak to you.

Michelle deals with the other customers. I wait both in the office and outside in the street until she is free again.
Audio clipped. 15 minutes later we continue.

So can your inform Marios that I’m here? And that I’m..
He knows that you’re here but I can’t..
I’m off to Nicosia tomorrow, these trips cost me £1000, £1200 in loss of wages and coming over and this is the second trip in a month. I’m trying to do the nice thing Michelle you guys have laid some things on us you told us some lies at the time and were really not happy but were having the house as not happy people.
But I need you to tell him that I’m here and give me an appointment to see him today. Because I’ve got other business to do in Cyprus as well.

I tried calling him this morning and he’s not answering the phone because he’s in the registry office in a meeting Conor. So If I call him now he’s not going to answer me When he’s finished I’ll call him or He’ll call me back and I can call you on your mobile I can’t do anymore than that Conor.

But you can’t tell me what time his next appointment here in the office is. You can’t tell me that.
I can’t tell you that now.
You have a diary of his events that you can say at 11.00 he’s over there.

He keeps his own diary as well as the one here. Many times we have had to re juggle them around. He can’t say how long he is going to be in Larnaca today. He can’t say how long he’ll be So sometimes when he comes back Conor he has to Cancel meetings himself Ones not with clients not other ones he has

I’ll keep floating around all morning I’ll wait for you to phone me once you have spoken to him and I need an appointment to see him urgently today. So I can then rest assured that things with my build are progressing. I told him on the phone that.

He can’t just drop everything.
Ah Michelle I told him on the phone that I was coming over today I gave him Two weeks notice for this day, I told you on Friday.

He’s got other appointments as well that are just as important.
Well why not commit to people who have already bought rather than going to the land registry office to register more plots, us people who have bought..
He not going to register plots he’s going for other things Conor, you’re just presuming now. You’re trying to make the situation a mountain out of a mole hill.
Oh you’ve made a two storey house out of a bungalow. If you want to make it that way.

Ok I’ll speak to you when he comes back in. and I’ll call you and let you know when you can see him OK.
Can you call me before 12.00
I’ll try and if I can call before 12 I will. OK

Well I have no choice.
I don’t know how you can do it to people Michelle, I really don’t. You’re not selling toasters, you know.
But we’ll move there, we’ll live there, we’ll be happy.
I’ll call…
Yea because it’s causing us a lot of distress and until we know, here collect the money again progress with the plot I’m not going to be happy.
I’ve got business to do tomorrow in Nicosia I’ve only got two days then before I leave Friday
So if he can give us a matter of urgency I said I’d be here at 9am I was 15 minutes early

I told you that..
You told me to deal through solicitors do you think we can afford that?
Is that your plan? Is that what you do?
…Ok I’ll speak to you when he comes back in this afternoon
I have no choice.
No you’ll speak to me before 12 when you get him on the phone

I will try if he calls me back. Conor. As soon as he’s finished his meeting he can speak to me. Then I’ll be able to ask him if you can have an appointment with him this afternoon.
Just five minutes
I doubt if its going to be 5 minutes anyway.
I swear I’m going to keep it brief I’m going to say here is the money for the house this is what is going to happen OK
OK

Karayiannas office afternoon meeting: 07-03-2006

After waiting at the hotel for Michelle’s call I get an appointment to meet Marios Karayiannas and his father Christoforos Karayiannas at 4pm. In this meeting, Marios Karayiannas starts off by trying to explain he now has no hard feelings as we are buying the house with his changes to the site plan. He again goes on to say that his opportunity is to keep his customers happy always. I tell him that we’ll live there as not happy people and try to explain that I will let everyone know the way he does business. I show him a business card with LyingBuilder.com and try to explain that on Thursday 10am I will start my investigations into their company.

At the Karayiannas Office Tuesday 7th March 2006 around 4pm. Present were Myself, Marios Karayiannas, Christoforos Karayiannas and a young female member of their staff (translating sometimes for Christoforos Karayiannas)

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Ok how are you
I’ve been better, I’ve been better, how are you
Fine
Good
Well I’m over here till Friday, Friday midday so I haven’t got that long and I’m in the capital tomorrow so.
Ok Tell me your situation..
Well what I said to Michelle this morning, was before I release the money…I’m releasing the money with Marion (solicitor) OK
Yes
OK if I can just summarise what has gone on between us
So to summarise
With me … don’t worry with my side I mean we do have anything wrong with you.
Or I don’t have to anything with you wrong or bad thing or whatever.
You have no bad feeling?
This is my business. Yes I don’t have any bad feeling. Anything that you speak on the phone anything I speak before or anything we said on the phone whatever I can’t, OK. My business here to sort out problem yes … to keep the clients happy, but the clients. But the clients they have to understand also other side, not only their side. It’s very important. You Understand? For me and for you. Because you have to look who’s around you and dealing with people and not alone in one centre. It’s very important for my family because my business affects my family and the girl that take job now for example when they come here for a job they work as your family not as job. It’s very important for myself. This is my character

I’m very happy that your family is happy, my family is not happy.
Greek speaking Christoforos Karayiannas
Your family is not happy why?
I won’t go into the why’s again
The why’s were all in the letter
We had four points on the letter Mario’s
Yes
And you have refused to do all those four points
Yes
So I heard from your solicitor last Wednesday that you have not done anything wrong in your contract?
Yes
And
That is true.
That is your opinion OK
It is not my opinion.
If you want to talk contracts I can talk site plans, OK
Can you let me finish.
OK so,Your solicitor said on Wednesday in five lines on an email that took 2.5 weeks
This is my letter to the solicitor I sent to you…
OK. So I’m perfectly clear. Then when I spoke to Michelle on Friday she said you would not speak to me you would speak through the solicitors Is that correct?

Yes..Because I cannot
Greek speaking Christoforos Karayiannas
No. Speak with your solicitor to explain to her what is happen and what is your opinion about the deal, about the contract, about the thing that you sign on the contract..its very important.
I can speak for myself I don’t need a solicitor
OK
To speak for me
Speak for yourself
I can speak for myself
OK

I understand what was in the contract and I understand what you said when you sold.OK. So w e cannot afford to go by solicitors; we cannot afford either financially or in time. Were already moving so we will be here in August. We move here plot no 30 in August OK

OK
And, But were not happy. So when you said…
Your not happy with what?
With what you have done to our plot
About to your plot.
Greek speaking Christoforos Karayiannas
In your plot what have we done?
Explain to my father, the balconies, the balconies, the balconies.
Can you explain to your father that this was the plan we were given when we were sold the plot.
Which is your house?
This is your house.
This was to be a road
Greek speaking Christoforos Karayiannas
I have to explain to my father Without your contract what we have done to your plot,
Explain to your father this is what I was given when we bought the place
Yes of course you are from the first plan
Greek speaking Christoforos Karayiannas
What did you do in your plot when you discussed the ????? (young Female member of their staff )
Inside you plot what we have done to you.
All my issue are outside, all my issues are outside.

Greek speaking Christoforos Karayiannas
I know where this is going. I know where this is going but I must be able to finish a sentence.
Greek speaking Christoforos Karayiannas
OK
If I can explain you can translate maybe, when I was given this I was told this is a bungalow here OK
Greek speaking Christoforos Karayiannas

This is a bungalow here and the only 1 window looking into my house, my garden was from that bungalow. This is the bungalow and that is the only window here. There was to be a road here and there was to be a bungalow and a bungalow. There was to be no windows looking into my garden.

Greek speaking Christoforos Karayiannas
We discuss this thing the same thing before. I build 2 or 3 houses here ok
We are not here to take it from the rent to take the houses or whatever
Am not er if you are not happy with the house I say to you these thing.
Greek speaking Christoforos Karayiannas
These are the 2 houses that remain OK And Mr Conor is that has a problem these balconies look into his plot
Greek speaking Christoforos Karayiannas
Ok anything else.

Yes
So that differs, Just the final line…
Whats the final deal
the final line is we were told that this was a very good plot because noone could look into the garden.
Greek speaking Christoforos Karayiannas
and that is why were not happy. You just asked me to explain why were not happy and I’ve explained. Yes OK

I explain to you that outside of your plot we don’t have to do or we don’t have to respect your opinion what the other people we have to do, it’s not your opportunity to say, not me the next plot that does not belong to me what they have to do Maybe tomorrow somebody is coming to build apartment next door.

Mario’s you did this at the same time the foundation for the changes happened at the same time as the foundations for mine so don’t say that these things are happening down in the future they happened at the same time ok Marios

Now, You sell us the house were not happy, yea that’s fine yea.
Your not happy with your neighbours
I’m not happy with all these houses looking into me
Its your opportunity its your deal.
Its my problem?
Its your problem
my problem?
Its your problem
Have you anything else to say to me like sorry or anything like this

Listen the contract is contract. We signed the contract. We recognise our side to the contract. And we have our deal. If you delay any of the payment we have the opportunity to deal with our solicitor to see what we can do. These our things

And read the contract again
Because If you delay
What I delay?
If you delay in giving me the house I too have written in the contract that you will be paying me money Ok so I know what is in the contract Marios
Ok. So I have to deliver the house to you the day that we deal about
Yes
I have
one months grace
one month grace and then I am sure from myself that I have to deliver the house to you I’m am ready there you will see the tiles that I’m ready for the tiles and I have 1 month for example I have XXXXX?

Ok
Greek speaking Christoforos Karayiannas

Obviously I don’t like the way you do business
Its your problem
Its my problem
OK
But you have a solicitor to deal with
I speak for myself
Speak for yourself
Speak for myself
So I don’t like the way you do business
Yes
And it’ll be my job to make sure nobody else falls for the deception you give before they buy and then your change in the contract and things like this OK
So I’ll give you till Thursday (I write on a business card that has “lyingbuilder.com the truth about Karayiannas)

What is that?
10am now this is a website that’s up at the moment called lyingbuilder.com the truth about Karayiannas

Greek speaking to Christoforos Karayiannas
The lying builder?
Greek speaking to Christoforos Karayiannas
so 10 o’clock Thursday (they stand up) I will be telling everyone and giving everyone them cards.

you make these thing
its on the web now, go on the internet
Greek speaking to Christoforos Karayiannas

if you make this thing..listen to me
I don’t care, go on what are you going to say
Greek speaking to Christoforos Karayiannas
be careful
if you make this thing
its on there now
its online
its online

nobody knows now
its online
nobody knows but us
you are in Cyprus OK
on thursday
go away

on thurdsday 10 every one will know.

You make this thing If you delay one of the payments…you are already delay.
I’ve already sold my property I kept up my side of the bargain you keep up your side of the bargain. I ’ve kept up my side of the bargain. I’ve kept up my side of the contract

Greek speaking to Christoforos Karayiannas

Every forum will know… the way you do business

I finish my coke and leave.

On the phone To Michelle Anglou: 03-03-2006

Christoforos Karayiannas & Son Ltd sent an email through their lawyers (The Pittadjis law firm of Paralimni) saying they will do nothing. I phoned Michelle Anglou to meet with Marios again the following Tuesday. (If you intend to do business with this company can you afford to fly back as often as I did?)

3rd March 2006 on the phone to Michelle Anglou

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Hi

Hi Michelle

Hi Erm, Ok Listen I’ve spoken with Marios because of the situation the way it is if you’re coming over to Cyprus the best thing for you to do is first of all contact your solicitor and discuss with them the situation and how you feel about the house and then if it is your solicitor will contact Marios’ solicitor and we’ll go from there

So Marios is refusing to see me then?

It’s not that he’s refusing to see you it’s just that it’s come to a point Conor where he’s had to contact his solicitor because of the points that you made in your email that you sent, its better at this stage that you speak with your solicitor about the issues that you have about the house. Your solicitor is there to work for you Conor so there going to advise you on what to do depending on how you’re feeling with the house.

Well thanks for your advice Michelle but I have no intention of involving a solicitor this end unlike yourselves who are a big company I can little afford to go down that line of reasoning.I’ll be outside your office Tuesday 9 O’clock and I suggest Marios makes some time to see me, so I’ll see you then.

She hung up.

On the phone to Marios Karayiannas: 22-02-2006

After doing as instructed, in super quick time (I arrived home late Friday night they had our response Monday morning). We waited. I emailed Karayiannas Property Developers for a response but got no reply. I phoned twice the next day and late on Wednesday 22nd, I got through to Marios Karayiannas. This recording was done using my iPod with a microphone attachment. I had only a standard phone so I had to keep putting the microphone up to the earpiece to record him. Because of this, I’ve had to amplify his side of the conversation so the volume levels remain the same. In this conversation, you will hear him start playing games as I’m hundreds of miles away. At first, he says he doesn’t understand the letter and then he says he doesn’t have to go with any suggestions ending up with telling me it’s my problem and eventually hanging up. It then dawns on us what kind of people they are.

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Hello
Hello
Yea hi Marios its Conor
Conor? Conor O’Dwyer?
Yes Conor O’Dwyer in the UK.
Hello there. Marios what’s happening. Have you made your decision?
The Decision, what er decision?
The decision, you asked me to go away, discuss with my wife, you know what can be done, I went..
You discuss with your wife what you. I see your letter but the letter, the letter Conor.
Yea..
I can’t understand this letter you write to me about the interest about the, to build another place what is this thing I don’t understand?
You don’t understand the letter at all?
No I don’t understand these things, it’s very, How I can explain to you, I tell you to go back to your and discuss with your wife and to tell me what you want to do.
AND..
These thing that you write to me about the give me your money back and to give you interest what ever, listen I give already the letter to my solicitor and we go I go tomorrow there. What do you want to do? What is your decision?

My decision is I set out in the letter quite clearly, If your having trouble reading it maybe you should get Michelle to read it for you and maybe interpret it, but I set out in the letter quite clearly four different options that we considered and only one option which is viable and that’s for you to build us a new house on another plot with our privacy intact. So that was my discussion with my wife and that’s the only way we can be happy so are you going to honour you commitment of making us happy or not?

About this thing that you say to me I understand what you mean but I explain to you the time that you be here that the house inside for your plot is exactly what we acted. You asked a lot of things in how to. I mean you asked a lot of thing in your letter.

That’s right I spent some time over the letter and I was hoping you would give me some response as well. It’s been over a week now and I’ve heard nothing.

When I have the time tomorrow I go to the solicitors to send you exactly what we decide and you can make it if you want. I will send a letter to your solicitor also. I will explain to Mrs Marion what is your opportunity to do.

So what..so what..

So you have in your mind from the beginning that we try to explain to you everything for the house and you we don’t take from the net??? To close the house. If you don’t like the house, you understand that. It’s your life, it’s your decision.

I will give you the money back and you can go to buy from other developers, straight away.

I can’t accept this reason you said to me with your wife that you are not accept to look into your land other people. Everywhere that you have to go you have to think about people that is around you.

We thought very carefully about the people that surrounding us the thing is that you and Michelle lied to us by telling us that there would be bungalows next to us and a road. Now there is not bungalows next to us and a road.

No anybody to tell me what I can do with my plot or in my house you understand these things. It’s like my house lets say that it’s my house the next plot you have to tell me what I have to build.

So why did you tell us that there would be a road and two bungalows and now do you think it’s…

?????…I will speak to my solicitor tomorrow and send you a letter

When can I expect that letter Marios because we are very busy here I have now sold my house were now going into rented accommodation and we do not know what is going on there in Cyprus, so we have to make some very important decisions..

Your wife?

Can you let me finish please?

We have to make some very important decisions this end on exactly the timings of moving over there. So its very important for us to have this finished as soon as possible and waiting for a solicitor that I’ve never met to write to me is not the way I expected to do business with you and maybe people should be warned that this is…..

first of all you have to understand that the people you are dealing with them ok and to respect somebody that try for them that I cant accept the reason that you say to me that I am not I don’t want the other people to look into my garden or that I don’t want anybody around me.

So you don’t understand….

I have with people not surrounding but it was £300,000

No it was £155,000. It was £155,000

You understood exactly when you sold us the house what the good reason for having no people looking into us was and now you don’t understand that it’s very upsetting for us.

The decision is yours

No the decision is yours Marios we’ve put down four decisions and it’s for you to choose one of them options.

I don’t have to choose, I choose my way that I take you to the maximum thing with the court.

So you’re doing nothing to remedy the situation

???

No you don’t have to do anything there Marios, you’ve made it quite clear but you just let me know here now, don’t play games, don’t play games Marios, tell me right here, tell me right here, right now that your not going to do anything and that your going to sell us the house as it it in the plot it is now. Is that exactly what your going to do?

????

Is that what you’re going to do Marios with the solicitor are you just going to prepare to build the plot number 30 as it stands

No no no this is not er

We’re going to go to the court if the court says to me why you build your plot this kind of house I will give you your money back and the interest also. If there is anybody to tell you what you can do in your own house I and the people I take my responsibility and to give you your money back and your interest. But there is no anybody who can tell me what I can do in my house. You are in your house stay in your house, stay in your plot stay in your build.

I

You can, You don’t, You don’t proceed with your dealing. You don’t… just a minute. You cannot you sign one deal with me, I go with the dealing, I go with the contract as we agree.

I tell you what Marios it’s very hard to deal with you when I’m hundreds of miles away so what I’ll do is next Tuesday week, Tuesday week I’ll come back to your office.

Just a minute (I hear Michelle prompting him but not picked up in audio here)

You recognise the agreement that you make with me?

I know exactly what’s on paper and what you said and I want you to acknowledge again that when we bought that plot you lied to us. You lied you told us that we would not…we would have a garden that is not overlooked

??? I build two storey house what is the problem?

The problem is now that is not what we paid for.

Yes.

Yes exactly.

??? most basically this, this is the things you don’t recognise, you site on the contract and you don’t recognize the dealing that you made with me.

Do you think people should be warned on the way you do business Marios, do you think that people should be told that what you say and what you do is different.

We speak tomorrow; I will call you tomorrow, and will send a letter to you with the solicitor.

Ok well…

Also if you don’t recognise the contract you make with your own solicitor this your problem..I mean I speak with Mrs Marion..

It’s my problem yeah?

It’s my problem?

Yeah, who’s upset?

Yeah is that right yeah.

OK listen, I’ll come over to Cyprus not next week the following week, I’ll let..oop, he’s hung up

He’s hung up.

Recorded at the Karayiannas office: 10-02-2006

Unfortunately, the next meeting in the Karayiannas office was not recorded, the battery failed on the camcorder. Because of the battery failure I had to go back and meet Marios Karayiannas and Michelle to cover the same detail as we had the day before, before my flight that afternoon. In this meeting, they think I’m crazy/stupid for asking the same questions however I leave the meeting reassured that compromises are possible if we’re still not happy we can have our money back and I’m sent away to discuss it with my wife in England.

At the Karayiannas Office Friday, February 10, 2006 around 9am. Present were Myself, Marios Karayiannas and Michelle Anglou.

Download mp3

Transcript:-

You have 10 minutes?
Yes come in. Yes
The pipe work for the kitchen..
Yes..
I told Michelle it’s in the wrong place it’s where the cooker should be.
We put the drainage pipe in everything when we are ready for the tiles. When we are ready for the tiles we have your order where you want the sink and everything and we bring all the pipes there.
So does that mean breaking down the floor again?
No there is no need to go down to the floor. Out to the side of the bricks. We go out because it is not a big pipe we have to make a 13cm conduit/concrete above from this floor we have 13cm conduit/concrete to put the tiles on. So in this conduit/concrete I will put the other pipe in the position you want.
OK. Because I remember Michelle said it was very important to let her know where the pipes go at the foundation stage, So it’s not so important now it can be a…
We put outside.
Its just less work its less work later on that its not that it cant be done
It just less work later on that’s all.
OK any question?
Yea, yea many.

The toilet, the downstairs toilet. I’m going on site now my flights at, I have to be at the airport at 3 I don’t have long but I’ll have to come back in two weeks I think to see how things are progressing. So the downstairs toilet how is the waste for that…
The waste pipe is going outside again from there to the wall going outside and going down.
I don’t know…are you on site today are you?
Listen it’s my responsibility to where this pipe. If you want toilet over there I put toilet. You understand?
Yea, I understand yea.

Ok, so the plan you had about the road, so I have to talk to my wife about it obviously as we said. Because many things have changed for me you know so on this trip so you have to…
What many things?
Well obviously the road plan changed. That changed since last time I was here.
It is my corner of the road outside from your house.
Yea but it changed from what you said last time.
It changed you mean about the bungalow houses of the bungalows, because I build two storey houses there?
Not only that. The road was to go up. As here. That was the plan that you gave us. The road where I was here was going up. So this has changed.
Yes this has changed.
So you have to go slow with me because as things change I have to then tell my wife what the changes are. So if I…
What you can explain to her about these changes that these thing there, these change because of the permission and the changes of the plans of the outside houses there. Because there this road here. You can explain to her. You have to understand you first to explain to her.
That’s right, that’s right I do. I have to understand it.
Not to go and explain other things.
No no…
You understand.
I don’t understand why it changed.
Why you don’t understand? Why you don’t understand Conor?
Because you gave me this and now it’s this.
It’s not in your house these things. It’s outside of the plot but I have to build some houses that I buy this plot to develop this plot that will to build my houses, in your plot I don’t make any changes. These are the things…in the mind.

So things that you said. Things that you said last time, things that you said last time have changed.
Ok I said these things, I said these things.
So only things that are in writing are good. So when you say that the downstairs toilet can be moved, this is not a problem. Then because it’s not in writing you know I have to know it’s not a problem.
Because you said that this would be a bungalow here and the road would go up there but it’s not in writing and I took that as not in writing and now it’s changed so I have to go a little bit slower. You see, so forgive me if I have to go slow. OK.

So you were proposing yesterday then, that because we are not happy now, that you said that this 6sq meters in 3 years time maybe you could give to us, did I understand that correctly?
Yes.
But that isn’t your problem though is it. That is neither here nor there to you. Your problem is the house there. It’s the road… So that really is no issue for you.
The issue is now being overlooked, when we bought the property…
What Marios is trying to explain is that he been given permission to change…
If I said to you because sometimes these are my. these are my problems sometimes when I or for example when I say some thing and change. I say to you I build bungalow. OK.
When because they change the plan, the permission of the government to me I build a 2 storey houses. OK. I mean I build a 2 storey houses. I don’t have a place here to build a bungalow if I build bungalow here I loose 1 house. You understand me now. A 2 storey house. If I say to you. You understand that?

You understand for me that only having one window here looking into my garden was not a problem now having two balconies coming down looking into my garden, that to me and my family was problem OK you understand the difference?
Yes I understand the difference.
Good OK.
OK. Discuss with your family what is your feeling and what is Sit down to think about it and we wait the answer from you. And this is your problem the 2 balconies looking into your plot, discuss with your family and come back to me say to me Mario’s this, this, this, this, advisor or say to us what we can do.

OK, so I will come back to you within 1 week by email and then I will return here within 2 weeks do you think any of the pipework will be done between now and 2 weeks.
The pipework, No.
What about the windows being blocked up.
The windows being block, Yes.

Let me just have a think now what else was different.
Do you have that list that we did the other day (to Michelle)
Of all the things that were going to be done.
You mean the form?
When we first sat here the other day
And we wrote a list of all the different things.

So you’re going up here are you are you building here now.
This road goes somewhere yep?
Yes it’s going out here
Yes and have you bought this land to build on now?
Listen It’s my…
I know it’s yours
Its my job if I buy this land for example.
Of course it’s your job. As a developer you want to make money you want to build it.
But it’s just nice to know.

Here is the area of the agricultural land. OK. Everywhere here.
I know it is at the moment.
We don’t know what is happening after three four years.
Right
If somebody come and build here understand or the zone change. They allow in this plot. Conor to build 1 house in each plot for the moment.
yep
After the changes of the zone. maybe somebody come to build houses the same like here.
For example I have the land here at the front now. In my plan to buy it to build houses to plan
You understand?
I go over in this area, I build all this I plan this houses. Now all the developers because (un-audable) everybody try because they hear from other people that they sell many houses many property, everybody come here to this area. The developer…
They might not build now. The zone might now be able to build now But they buy for the future.
For the future.
Do you understand?
Because you buy also this house for £163,000 now this house in this area is £180,000
This is why we rush to buy it. We knew this. This is why we rush to buy it.
Bravo, its good moving but I don’t understand your wife that is worried about the changes outside of your plot.

Well the difference is Marios
If I don’t make
Things that you say…
If I was not me,Conor. I don’t understand these things, because every time this is happening to me, from my experience you are not the first one, you are the 100 one. Do you understand?
Yea you’ve heard it….
You have your thinking about this. It’s good to don’t have other people to look into your property but I have this type but it is £300,000 each.

The trust between us Mario’s has been bruised. It has been bruised OK. What you said last time has now changed. OK.
We will go back and within one week I will see what my wife and me we can come up with and maybe we can come up with a solution, But I think the onus is on you and Karayiannas to rebuild that trust.

Listen my opportunity is to keep my clients happy always. You understand?
Well I’m not happy.
This is a family business, I’m not a big business and I want to loose clients or to send you back for example or to give you your money back like that. I don’t use this way. I don’t want to use this way.

But these are the people who don’t understand Conor. And I speak with them a lot of times.
And sometimes I have not very respectable people to me and because of one thing that I did change in the area or outside of the plot or because their neighbour they have dog for example they came in my office and say “Why these people they have dog in their own house”.

Sometimes. You understand that. You don’t have to do anything in your neighbours house.
Or one people for example want to run the plot without clothes????
This is their own problem. You understand?
I understand that Marios. The difference is that you said things yesterday that if it isn’t down on paper…
Some people because you say to me another one Some people they try to reduce the price of the house remember they came to me (speaking to Michelle Anglou) Remember that time?
Because I build not a house a bungalow…err..apartment. The next plot I build apartment for example another area. they buy the house for 180,000 from me and I buy the next plot 300,000 one piece of land to build apartment I pay 300,000.

Because I want to build apartment they came to my office back
And say to me no we want to reduce the price of the house because you build apartment.You came to Cyprus to warrant and have problem with people because you don’t like to be in your house over there it’s not good.

I understand and as a businessman I would be in exactly the same position as you.
You think like me.
The difference for me is Marios when you said something last time OK. We took that and then yesterday you say if it’s not in the contract then there is nothing you can do about it. So I just want to make sure…

You chose the house because I say to you I build bungalow next door?
Yes. Yes because we have a private garden Yes. Otherwise we take our time and we look elsewhere. But because there was no one overlooking us. We said straight away.

Conor, Conor, listen we got to stop because I have to go land registry office.
I understand.
You can discuss with you wife and your family explain to her what we discuss here.

Show her the pictures. I took pictures the other day from here and looking into our garden and the differences in that. My wife is not a difficult person don’t get that, that, because that, that, was not nice. But we are very hard working people and we wanted to buy a place where we could relax in the garden do what we want and not have balconies overlooking us.

If it’s a bungalow that’s next to you Conor when they get their title deeds they can..
They can build a second floor.
Build Above we have no control over that Conor as with this man here in few years time…
I have to go Land registry office.

Thank you for you time.
Discuss with your wife.
I will email you within one week and be back within two weeks.

I don’t have a problem giving you your money back, If you want to buy another place.
I’m not here to waste time in investments..
If you want to buy another place from another developer I don’t have a problem or another country. I will give you your money back.. You see how they work in other place. You see for me I say to you I build a bungalow but sometimes things change to me.

You should let your buyer know that then, you should let your buyers know when you come in that this plan that I have at home will change. You should let people know that, That is the…
I don’t know this Conor before when you close the agreement these thing coming later on.

This is dated 2004 also isn’t it
Yes
October 2004 you know I was here last year

Ok If I say to you Conor I build another 2 storey houses from the beginning before you..
Yep I take my time then and I look elsewhere that what I would do.
No before you book after the booking of the house. These things happen before after you close the agreement. It also happen before you close the house. If I know these things from the beginning I say to you this is the plan. OK.
See you in two weeks Thanks for your time
Have a nice trip